Comments for Manipulative-People.com http://www.manipulative-people.com Shedding new light on difficult people Thu, 09 Sep 2010 13:47:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 Comment on What Neurotics Don’t Get About Disturbed Characters by Dr. Simon http://www.manipulative-people.com/what-neurotics-dont-get-about-disturbed-characters/#comment-736 Dr. Simon Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:46:11 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=84#comment-736 Excellent comment, Suzanne. You should also be aware that the brandishing of anger and rage is sometimes used as a "tactic" by some disturbed characters to intimidate others into backing down, giving in, or giving up. And in those cases, the person is rarely really angry about anything of substance when they use the tactic, even though they're quite capable of harmful behavior - even violence - when they're determined to have their way. Excellent comment, Suzanne. You should also be aware that the brandishing of anger and rage is sometimes used as a “tactic” by some disturbed characters to intimidate others into backing down, giving in, or giving up. And in those cases, the person is rarely really angry about anything of substance when they use the tactic, even though they’re quite capable of harmful behavior - even violence - when they’re determined to have their way.

]]> Comment on What Neurotics Don’t Get About Disturbed Characters by Suzanne Piper http://www.manipulative-people.com/what-neurotics-dont-get-about-disturbed-characters/#comment-733 Suzanne Piper Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:32:40 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=84#comment-733 I have these same issues to some extent. As a child, I was taught to believe people didn't really mean the things they said while angry. They were "just" mad. As an adult, I have realized many comments made in anger are how the person really feels and it took the anger to bring the comments to the surface. I have problems with self-esteem. I don't know how to respond to someone when they are abusive. I have these same issues to some extent. As a child, I was taught to believe people didn’t really mean the things they said while angry. They were “just” mad. As an adult, I have realized many comments made in anger are how the person really feels and it took the anger to bring the comments to the surface. I have problems with self-esteem. I don’t know how to respond to someone when they are abusive.

]]> Comment on Lying - Another Look at this Character Defect by weary CEO http://www.manipulative-people.com/lying-another-look-at-this-character-defect/#comment-725 weary CEO Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:05:14 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=40#comment-725 Absolutely right. And it is so difficult to get others to realize this, if they haven't taken the journey from being an ordinary well-meaning 'neurotic' (conscientious, compassionate) to a wised-up neurotic. And that leaves the innocent vulnerable, or at least using inadequate tactics and strategies. We are struggling with trying to rid our organization of an employee who is, I am sure, covert aggressive. (And how 'covert' it is i begin to doubt, as he is increasingly cornered.) They lying is prodigious and outrageous - not only things that he knows can't be possibly true; but he says things (damaging things) that he knows that his listener knows aren't true! How can you lie to someone when you know they know you're lying? Even our lawyer is saying things like 'I think he really believes it... has convinced himself...' etc. Because there is a well-known phenomenon of people passionately clinging to their self-serving view and refusing to see other viewpoints - people who aren't psychopaths (or 'covert aggressives', to use your preferable refinement of categories.) What I'm trying to get people to see is, for CAs, language and communication are not about truth, they're about power. And perhaps you could bring out still more in your post above - it may not simply be about being 'one-up' - it's about INTIMIDATION. It's like the logical difference between a warning and a threat - a warning still contains a clause that can be true or false, but a threat has no truth or falsity - it is pure intimidation. To look someone in the eye and tell a lie the listener knows is a lie is to say - 'I am capable of saying ANYTHING about you -- truth is no protection -- so be VERY AFRAID of what I can do to you!' Absolutely right. And it is so difficult to get others to realize this, if they haven’t taken the journey from being an ordinary well-meaning ‘neurotic’ (conscientious, compassionate) to a wised-up neurotic. And that leaves the innocent vulnerable, or at least using inadequate tactics and strategies.

We are struggling with trying to rid our organization of an employee who is, I am sure, covert aggressive. (And how ‘covert’ it is i begin to doubt, as he is increasingly cornered.) They lying is prodigious and outrageous - not only things that he knows can’t be possibly true; but he says things (damaging things) that he knows that his listener knows aren’t true! How can you lie to someone when you know they know you’re lying?

Even our lawyer is saying things like ‘I think he really believes it… has convinced himself…’ etc. Because there is a well-known phenomenon of people passionately clinging to their self-serving view and refusing to see other viewpoints - people who aren’t psychopaths (or ‘covert aggressives’, to use your preferable refinement of categories.)

What I’m trying to get people to see is, for CAs, language and communication are not about truth, they’re about power.

And perhaps you could bring out still more in your post above - it may not simply be about being ‘one-up’ - it’s about INTIMIDATION. It’s like the logical difference between a warning and a threat - a warning still contains a clause that can be true or false, but a threat has no truth or falsity - it is pure intimidation.

To look someone in the eye and tell a lie the listener knows is a lie is to say - ‘I am capable of saying ANYTHING about you — truth is no protection — so be VERY AFRAID of what I can do to you!’

]]> Comment on Abuse Victims Try too Hard to Understand by Dr. Simon http://www.manipulative-people.com/abuse-victims-try-to-hard-to-understand/#comment-659 Dr. Simon Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:40:10 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=82#comment-659 Thank you for your kind words and endorsement of my work. Thank you for your kind words and endorsement of my work.

]]> Comment on Confessions of a Covert-Aggressive Personality by Alli http://www.manipulative-people.com/confessions-of-a-covert-aggressive-personality/#comment-648 Alli Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:43:15 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=79#comment-648 I was in a relationship with what I initially perceived was an intelligent, caring and professional man, a Chiropractor in fact, and thought I had met the man of my dreams. He portrayed to me to be everything I had hoped to find in a partner. He talked the talk very well and as we met at a time when my biological clock was not far from expiring and was desperate to have a child I thought I was the luckiest woman in the world when I met him. How wrong I was, it was once I was pregnant that I first saw the other side of him so had a serious decision to make whether to continue the pregnancy as I was quite frightened for my safety. I did have our child who is the most adorable little girl in the world, now nearly 5. I endured a pregnancy of random attacks of verbal abuse from him, never provoked and often when I least expected them, he would turn so nasty and say such horrible things about me yet the whole time speaking in this very controlled, calm yet utterly cold and cruel voice. I attemtped to leave several times during the pregnancy yet he would always say afterwards how sorry he was and that of course he could see things from where I was comign from. I ended up leaving when she was 10 weeks old and we seperated for 1.3 yr, however his manipulation continued and managed to pursuade me to give things another go for the sake of our family so we did for another 2 yrs (of hell). I started to peice his manipulation and behaviour yet I just couldn’t fathom it. I left him for good in Jan ‘09 yet he already has another partner with a little girl and they are expecting a baby at the end of the year. She was also his patient as was I, and as I’ve since found out were 2 others, including his ex wife. I was fearful to leave him during our reconciliation as he would always threaten me that he would take our daughter for 50/50 custody and as I had been a full time stay at home Mum the thought of this just terrified me. We are now going through solicitors to get things finalised, yet I can just see how he is starting to manipulate our daughter, to the point that when she comes home she doesn’t want to leave Daddy. This just breaks my heart. How do I deal with such a man? I am so afraid he is gradually going to work his magic on her vulnerable little mind and turn her against me altogether. A very concerned Mother. I was in a relationship with what I initially perceived was an intelligent, caring and professional man, a Chiropractor in fact, and thought I had met the man of my dreams. He portrayed to me to be everything I had hoped to find in a partner. He talked the talk very well and as we met at a time when my biological clock was not far from expiring and was desperate to have a child I thought I was the luckiest woman in the world when I met him. How wrong I was, it was once I was pregnant that I first saw the other side of him so had a serious decision to make whether to continue the pregnancy as I was quite frightened for my safety. I did have our child who is the most adorable little girl in the world, now nearly 5. I endured a pregnancy of random attacks of verbal abuse from him, never provoked and often when I least expected them, he would turn so nasty and say such horrible things about me yet the whole time speaking in this very controlled, calm yet utterly cold and cruel voice. I attemtped to leave several times during the pregnancy yet he would always say afterwards how sorry he was and that of course he could see things from where I was comign from. I ended up leaving when she was 10 weeks old and we seperated for 1.3 yr, however his manipulation continued and managed to pursuade me to give things another go for the sake of our family so we did for another 2 yrs (of hell). I started to peice his manipulation and behaviour yet I just couldn’t fathom it.

I left him for good in Jan ‘09 yet he already has another partner with a little girl and they are expecting a baby at the end of the year. She was also his patient as was I, and as I’ve since found out were 2 others, including his ex wife. I was fearful to leave him during our reconciliation as he would always threaten me that he would take our daughter for 50/50 custody and as I had been a full time stay at home Mum the thought of this just terrified me. We are now going through solicitors to get things finalised, yet I can just see how he is starting to manipulate our daughter, to the point that when she comes home she doesn’t want to leave Daddy. This just breaks my heart.

How do I deal with such a man? I am so afraid he is gradually going to work his magic on her vulnerable little mind and turn her against me altogether.

A very concerned Mother.

]]> Comment on Abuse Victims Try too Hard to Understand by Enter Your Name... http://www.manipulative-people.com/abuse-victims-try-to-hard-to-understand/#comment-643 Enter Your Name... Mon, 30 Aug 2010 01:15:40 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=82#comment-643 I have only good things to say about your first book, "In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People", Dr. Simon. I first read an online excerpt from it about 10 years ago, and then ordered it shortly thereafter. Even then, you gave me so much insight into the character and tactics of covertly-aggressive personalities. It was really refreshing for me to get a name to some of the tactics manipulators use, and even more so for me to see clearly how people I encounter in my life fit those descriptions. I will admit that from time to time, I am guilty of using the tactics to try to manipulate a person or situation, particularly with my own parents. But I think they see right through me, as do I ultimately. It really has to do with someone's behavior pattern over time, and how consistent it is across many domains and situations that speaks volumes about his or her character. At almost 30 years old, I still have a lot to learn about people and myself and why we do the things we do, as well as how to change. But I think that everyday is a new day and we learn from our mistakes how to recognize and see people and ourselves for what we really are! Keep on writing! I have only good things to say about your first book, “In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People”, Dr. Simon. I first read an online excerpt from it about 10 years ago, and then ordered it shortly thereafter. Even then, you gave me so much insight into the character and tactics of covertly-aggressive personalities. It was really refreshing for me to get a name to some of the tactics manipulators use, and even more so for me to see clearly how people I encounter in my life fit those descriptions. I will admit that from time to time, I am guilty of using the tactics to try to manipulate a person or situation, particularly with my own parents. But I think they see right through me, as do I ultimately. It really has to do with someone’s behavior pattern over time, and how consistent it is across many domains and situations that speaks volumes about his or her character. At almost 30 years old, I still have a lot to learn about people and myself and why we do the things we do, as well as how to change. But I think that everyday is a new day and we learn from our mistakes how to recognize and see people and ourselves for what we really are! Keep on writing!

]]> Comment on Confessions of a Covert-Aggressive Personality by Dr. Simon http://www.manipulative-people.com/confessions-of-a-covert-aggressive-personality/#comment-310 Dr. Simon Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:43:04 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=79#comment-310 Although all psychopaths (alt: sociopaths) are the ultimate manipulators, not all manipulators or persons with other antisocial and character-disordered traits are psychopaths. And while many there are certainly traits in many disordered characters that are deeply ingrained and not very amenable to change, not all of the most problematic personality types are completely beyond change. They're just not reachable or teachable with conventional understanding or methods. Although all psychopaths (alt: sociopaths) are the ultimate manipulators, not all manipulators or persons with other antisocial and character-disordered traits are psychopaths. And while many there are certainly traits in many disordered characters that are deeply ingrained and not very amenable to change, not all of the most problematic personality types are completely beyond change. They’re just not reachable or teachable with conventional understanding or methods.

]]> Comment on Confessions of a Covert-Aggressive Personality by Anonymous http://www.manipulative-people.com/confessions-of-a-covert-aggressive-personality/#comment-306 Anonymous Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:25:23 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=79#comment-306 You can't teach a sociopath to grow a conscience, can one actually expect a manipulator of this sort to care for anything but his own self-serving agenda? I think not. As cliche as it may be, a leopard cannot change its spots... You can’t teach a sociopath to grow a conscience, can one actually expect a manipulator of this sort to care for anything but his own self-serving agenda? I think not. As cliche as it may be, a leopard cannot change its spots…

]]> Comment on Abuse Victims Try too Hard to Understand by Dr. Simon http://www.manipulative-people.com/abuse-victims-try-to-hard-to-understand/#comment-265 Dr. Simon Fri, 06 Aug 2010 20:55:37 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=82#comment-265 Great comment. And the pattern is likely to remain on his part but that doesn't mean you can't really turn around any self-defeating pattern on your part. Remember, setting the "terms of engagement" is not only your right but responsibility. Disturbed characters can't be trusted to set the right rules. Great comment. And the pattern is likely to remain on his part but that doesn’t mean you can’t really turn around any self-defeating pattern on your part. Remember, setting the “terms of engagement” is not only your right but responsibility. Disturbed characters can’t be trusted to set the right rules.

]]> Comment on Abuse Victims Try too Hard to Understand by Dr. Simon http://www.manipulative-people.com/abuse-victims-try-to-hard-to-understand/#comment-264 Dr. Simon Fri, 06 Aug 2010 20:53:22 +0000 http://www.manipulative-people.com/?p=82#comment-264 Thanks. I appreciate your endorsement of my work. Advance orders for the new one can be placed in just one week with Amazon. Spending no time or energy in areas of your life where you have no control is not only empowering but also an antidote for the depression that typically ensues when someone tries far too hard to understand and make things work. Lesson well learned. Thanks. I appreciate your endorsement of my work. Advance orders for the new one can be placed in just one week with Amazon.

Spending no time or energy in areas of your life where you have no control is not only empowering but also an antidote for the depression that typically ensues when someone tries far too hard to understand and make things work.

Lesson well learned.

]]>